You CAN post in this thread anonymously by logging out and posting in this thread as a "guest". This is one of the only threads with this type of set up. Due to the subject and very passionate emotions people have about it, we have set up the anonymous guest posting to encourage participation from people who might not otherwise feel comfortable.
I think it should be allowed. What people do privately is up to them. I have way more important things in my life to care about this stuff, and I personally find it very silly that people have issues with this. Let them pay taxes like I do and just live their lives however they want to. This issue is snowballing in most places to being accepted.
Personally it doesn't bother me either. I could care less what the decision is. They're already together and they want to be married... why fight that? They're going to be together regardless, and is there any benefit to having it not allowed?
The "benefit" is to preserve the "sanctity" of marriage. I got news for the Christian Right ... most of those out there speaking on your behalf have more hatred than understanding and love in the message they send. The idea of "what would Jesus do" and the message of conservatism are completely at odds.
I can't think of any real reason that they could say it shouldn't other than "the bible says no"... well guess what, the bible should have nothing to do with the rights of individuals. Separation of church and state even though that's hard to see in our government some times.
marriage is a legal union between 2 people correct. I have been married 2 times and it was made VERY clear that the church or religious affiliation location COULD NOT marry me without proof of the legal marriage license that had been received. That being said - take the religion out of this issue. Just legally allow then to get married, pay taxes, contribute, etc.
As a Christian, I must speak out against both the gay lifestyle and "gay marriage." Such are, according to Scripture, abominations, right along with lying, gluttony, adultery, fornication, drunkenness, gossiping, etc.
However, the secular marriage, which has absolutely nothing to do with marriage according to under God's economy or His Church's economy is a thing unto itself. If the Church did not want the state to define marriage, it should not have turned the institution over to the state in the first place. Essentgially, under the state, marriage is a secular indulgence, i.e. selling a license for something illicit (illicare) to make it licit (licare) under positive law.
Even secular marriages should not be a matter of license but of common law, i.e. a contract between two parties and relegated to the domain of contract disputes between two or more parties with the state serving, not as the licenser thereof, but as the mere contract arbitrator. Thus, if a gay couple wants a contract of "marriage," let it be so, but not under license or under Church law.
Also, no law, i.e. hate crime, should interfere with my right to call attention to their nefarious lifestyle. By the same token, no one should be able to take from them their life, their liberty or their property simply because they are "gay."
bonnieblue wrote: As a Christian, I must speak out against both the gay lifestyle and "gay marriage." Such are, according to Scripture, abominations, right along with lying, gluttony, adultery, fornication, drunkenness, gossiping, etc.
However, the secular marriage, which has absolutely nothing to do with marriage according to under God's economy or His Church's economy is a thing unto itself. If the Church did not want the state to define marriage, it should not have turned the institution over to the state in the first place. Essentgially, under the state, marriage is a secular indulgence, i.e. selling a license for something illicit (illicare) to make it licit (licare) under positive law.
Even secular marriages should not be a matter of license but of common law, i.e. a contract between two parties and relegated to the domain of contract disputes between two or more parties with the state serving, not as the licenser thereof, but as the mere contract arbitrator. Thus, if a gay couple wants a contract of "marriage," let it be so, but not under license or under Church law.
Also, no law, i.e. hate crime, should interfere with my right to call attention to their nefarious lifestyle. By the same token, no one should be able to take from them their life, their liberty or their property simply because they are "gay."
Bonnie - first off, welcome to our site. Great to have you hear.
Second - VERY WELL SAID. Whether you believe that it is ok or not ok to be gay is irrelvant to letting them be married under the law.
I'm against gay marriage for the simple fact that by allowing gay marriage is changing the definition of marriage altogether. You're changing (some might say corrupting) something that has been considered holy and valid by millions of people over thousands of years. To simply change the definition of marriage isn't fair or reasonable, IMO.
By saying gay marriage should not be allowed is saying that religion plays a huge role in the government. Interpretation has changed many definitions over time. Changing definitions is something that has to come over time.
MH0825 wrote: By saying gay marriage should not be allowed is saying that religion plays a huge role in the government. Interpretation has changed many definitions over time. Changing definitions is something that has to come over time.
Why shouldn't it is the question? If the only reason that it shouldn't is because of the long standing definition that's an awful reason. If the only reason is because the church says it's wrong, well we have too much religion in our government.
What happens if you have a child and they grow up to live the lifestyle being gay? Should they not be able to have the same type of happiness that your partner and yourself have? Are you going to shun your own child and tell them they don't deserve to be married because they're not the same?
Marriage is between a man and a woman. It is obviously not how nature intended. I do not agree with Gay Marriage on any level. It is distasteful to God and so it is distasteful to me.
However, I will not go ahead and look at a person any differently, nor will I deny him or her their basic rights to pursue happiness. The Biblical passage comes to mind:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you (Matthew 7:12).”
"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."
Matthew 6:14-15
So I ask how can we sin and then criticize another of sinning?
So in conclusion of my post, I am not really sure what to do. I do not have the life wisdom to make a thorough conclusion based on my religion and the liberties that are alloted to every human being.
MH0825 wrote: Should religion effect what rights people are given?
No, religion should not infringe on any man's natural liberties, if he is wronged, he will be judged by God, not man.
However, religion should guide a man on the way he or she should live his or her life. If homosexuals are Christians, instead of trying to change the doctrine, so that they can be 'sinless' they should accept their sin and ask for God's forgiveness, just as for every other sin. No sin is too big for God to forgive. (Except denying the very Spirit of God, which I am not even sure of)
MH0825 wrote: Then why restrict them their ability to be married?Sorry, I should have been a little clearer. I do not mind if they get married, but I do not support, in any way shape or form, homosexuals getting married in the Church. Marriage is a spiritual, holy ritual in the Church, and should not be defiled, as Marriage in the Church is a union done by God.
Ok I can concur with that but that's completely up to the churches. I don't think the government should mandate that churches allow it as it's a separate entity and the government should not control that.
MH0825 wrote:
What happens if you have a child and they grow up to live the lifestyle being gay? Should they not be able to have the same type of happiness that your partner and yourself have? Are you going to shun your own child and tell them they don't deserve to be married because they're not the same?
No, I'm not going to shun my child. While I'll disaprove of their lifestyle I'll respect their choice. It's not about "deserving" to be married.
MH0825 wrote: Should religion effect what rights people are given?
If the issue at hand (gay marriage) deals directly with an issue directly associated with religion (marriage) then yes.
Question: Do you think 100 people should be able to get married to each other or than a man should be able to marry his horse?
