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OMG, back in college we had this guy who was a super right for lifer, was even against birth control, really animate about it too. So I got ticked off once and told him just that... If half the cells needed to form a life is considered a life and birth control was wrong (which was his argument) then masterbation was a Sin as well! he flipped out... I realize there are grey areas but that was way over board ;-)
"If they're drunk, they're being irresponsible and should have to deal with the consequences."
Some people like to have fun. If we avoided doing all the things that could possibly have "negative consequences", we'd be boring as hell. Maybe people who drive cars are being irresponsible (don't they know of the extremely high risk of traffic injuries?)
It's not irresponsible to drive a car. It's not irresponsible to have sex. It's irresponsible to drive a car drunk. It's irresponsible to have sex without some form of birth control (or acceptance of the potential consequences).
I misworded what you quoted. Being drunk doesn't necessarily mean they're being irrepsonble, but being drunk, having sex, and saying they were drunk is why they screwed up is being very irresponsible.
"Condoms fail, but birth control and condoms don't fail at the same time."
Some people don't like birth control. In some religions birth control is forbidden. Birth control can fail. Condoms can fail.
They don't like it? That's a lowsy excuse, and you know it. In the religion(s) in which birth control is forbidden, so is premartial sex, to my knowlege. And as I said, condoms and birth control pills won't fail at the same time. use both.
"Actually, it's the child's body as well. They are, in effect, making the choice to end the child's life for the child."
Actually, it's just a parasite in the mother's body. The government should have no say in what she can do to her body. The embryo/fetus (note I do not use the word "child") is leeching off the mother. They are, in effect, making the choice to not feed or host the embryo/fetus any longer.
What, in your opinion, is the difference between a newborn child and an unborn child? What makes it wrong to kill a newborn child and not wrong to kill an unborn one?
"You can't use the excuse to end the life of a child by saying that it "might have had a bad life." just think about it. That's a terrible argument."
You're not "ending" the life, there was no "life" to begin with, provided the abortion happens early enough.
There is a life becasue it is alive. You're ending it's potentail ability to grow, to love, to hate, and so on. In effect you're doing the exact same thing you'd be doing if the child was born. But all that is beside the point - there is no real difference. If you're ending his life or his "potential life" is the same, really. Regardless you're saying that because his life MIGHT be BAD (by my standards, not his) then it's okay to end his life or potential life or whatever you want to call it.
If you pull up some statistics you'll see the correlation between abortions being legal and the crime rate being lower.
Yes? I know. This is because a lot of the families are single-parent low-income families. Perhaps we should round up all single-parent and low-income families and commit genocide. Just because they have one parent or a low income or live in poverty doesn't mean they can't have a good, fullfilling life.
TVDinner wrote: I think we are all forgetting the other big question. When is a baby a baby. Because in the first few months it is nothing more then a little dot of nothingness.
It's not really a dot of "nothingness." There's a living creature. It is alive.
There is virtually no difference between a child (fully devloped) that's unborn and a child that's born. The only real difference is that the born child breathes. (which I think it'd be a weak argument to say that the ability to breath makes you humor or not).
When does it become human? Conception? When brain activity can be read? When the heart beats? When it can feel pain?
It becomes human when it can live on it's own and not depend on being in the womb. It becomes sad to kill when it's already well along the way to that point. But before that, no loss.
Speaking of "dots of nothingness", I kill MILLIONS in the period of a month. If you catch my drift. And DAMN, it feels good.
Also--here's a little basic psychology question (i'll explain the significance after you reply):
You are on a boat that's sinking. With you is your 8-year old brother and your 45-year old dad. You can only save ONE person. They are both unable to swim. Who do you save?
roadkill wrote: Speaking of "dots of nothingness", I kill MILLIONS in the period of a month. If you catch my drift. And DAMN, it feels good.
Also--here's a little basic psychology question (i'll explain the significance after you reply):
You are on a boat that's sinking. With you is your 8-year old brother and your 45-year old dad. You can only save ONE person. They are both unable to swim. Who do you save?
Sending you an invoice as I spit my drink all over my keyboard for the first statement.
I know this question that you state so I will not participate.
roadkill wrote: It becomes human when it can live on it's own and not depend on being in the womb. It becomes sad to kill when it's already well along the way to that point. But before that, no loss.
Speaking of "dots of nothingness", I kill MILLIONS in the period of a month. If you catch my drift. And DAMN, it feels good.
Also--here's a little basic psychology question (i'll explain the significance after you reply):
You are on a boat that's sinking. With you is your 8-year old brother and your 45-year old dad. You can only save ONE person. They are both unable to swim. Who do you save?
But why do you say it becomes human at that point?
I would save whoever I thought had the least chance of survival.
"But why do you say it becomes human at that point?"
Because embryos and fetuses have no intelligence, they are not a "human" in that they are a part of another human (the mother). When she gives birth, the baby becomes it's own person. Arguably, the baby is a "human" for several months before birth because the two could be separated and the fetus could survive.
The first few months of birth, it's a lump of cells. It even resembles reptiles and fish early on!
"I would save whoever I thought had the least chance of survival."
You have to save one. The other will die. Who will it be?
roadkill wrote: "But why do you say it becomes human at that point?"
Because embryos and fetuses have no intelligence, they are not a "human" in that they are a part of another human (the mother). When she gives birth, the baby becomes it's own person. Arguably, the baby is a "human" for several months before birth because the two could be separated and the fetus could survive.
What do you mean by no intelligence? They can still think from a somewhat early stage. What is so significant of people disattatched from the mother?
roadkill wrote: "I would save whoever I thought had the least chance of survival."
You have to save one. The other will die. Who will it be?
It would sincely depend on the situation and the people. Whoever did have the least chance of survival. Or whichever one I loved more.
Just answer the question. Here, i'll set it up for you. The 2 people you're with are family friends. A dad and his 12-year old son. They are both healthy. They have good lives. But neither can swim. You can save one. The other will die. Who will it be?
It is a womans right to choice to have an abortion.
For some women this can be an extremely difficult decision and who are we to stand outside a clinic and picket them and make that choice even harder for them.
A lot of abortions are due to slackness in taking birth control, but I would still much rather see some one have an abortion than to see a baby neglected/abused as it was unwanted.
If you take this choice away you are going back to the dark days of back yard abortions done with coat hangers etc.
