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It's been several years now and we still have some troops over in Iraq... what do you think stay there or it's time to pack up?
I personally think we've been there long enough and if it's not fixed yet there's no chance. I think we could find a better way to do this and stop wasting money and sending troops over there.
The only problem with the "cut and run" theory is it has already been done and we saw what happened using that in Vietnam. What the media pretty much whitwashed over was the slaughter of 100's of thousands of innocent people when we bailed. I was not for the Vietnam war by the way as I felt you are either "in it to win it" or not. I feel the same about Iraq.
I feel those that undermine our presence in Iraq while we are trying to bring about true peace, prosperity and hopefully democracy do nothing but give aid and comfort to the enemy. Say what you will, you can't put a timeline on creating a democracy. To those that say you can, I say learn some history buckwheat. If you chose to ignore history, then you are ignorant. If you don't know what I am talking about, try Germany and Japan. Let's see, how many years did that take after World War II? Could it possibly be that the US Military still has a presence there? Are senators running around to every TV camera and claiming we need to bail from there? No, it wouldn' t make the president look bad so what would be the point?
To those crazies that get into conspiracy theories about oil, Iraq, Halliburton and the war I want to puke. To those that claim there are Taliban terrorists in every part of the world except Iraq I say how about a little midnight ride in a Humvee, Bradley or Stryker through the streets of Baghdad?
And one final note. The main war is over. We are nation building whether we like it or not, interspersed with terrorist attacks. If it weren't over, Iraq would be a giant crater. I pray for peace and prosperity for the Iraqi people, unless praying isn't allowed now by the PC crowd. Perhaps they want separation of religion and Iraq.
I fully agree with going over there to begin with but damn, enough is enough. I support the troops, I just don't support the decision to keep sending troops over there at this point.
We CAN NOT leave. Right or wrong we can not leave now. We are now there to protect the people that are still living there, or trying to live there. Like said above, if we leave, they will all die in one of the worst civil wars in decades. I agree that we can not leave and we have to now help the people. We have taken the first few steps and now have to complete the rest of the steps.
The situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate with more loss of lives, with even more hardship to Iraqi civilians.
The serious divisions within Iraq, unleashed by the war itself, have not been reduced. The Iraqi government has made no significant steps towards reconciliation and accommodation between the warring parties.
This is a situation that cannot be controlled by military force. The troop surge, such as it was, failed. There were over half a million Americans in Vietnam. They failed. With only a fraction of that number in Iraq it should be no surprise that continued reliance on military means is not succeeding.
There is no victory or defeat in Iraq, Just death. The war has changed nothing and will solve nothing.
so what do you suggest? If we walk away now it will be worse for those living there. should we have left Saddam in power? Is that what you are suggesting. I just ask because everyone who says we should not be there seems to forget how bad it was before we got there....
I don't think Iraq will ever be a democratic nation, whether we stay or leave. The only thing we are doing over there right now is pissing every one else off.
swm wrote: The situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate with more loss of lives, with even more hardship to Iraqi civilians.
The serious divisions within Iraq, unleashed by the war itself, have not been reduced. The Iraqi government has made no significant steps towards reconciliation and accommodation between the warring parties.
This is a situation that cannot be controlled by military force. The troop surge, such as it was, failed. There were over half a million Americans in Vietnam. They failed. With only a fraction of that number in Iraq it should be no surprise that continued reliance on military means is not succeeding.
There is no victory or defeat in Iraq, Just death. The war has changed nothing and will solve nothing.
Well here we go again. The U.S. is an Evil Empire crap. If we would only leave the Taliban terrorists and lslamic fundamentalists alone then they would just go and play and make nice. Really? Did they try to fly Boeing 767-200's into your Parliament or into your skyscrapers in Melbourne or maybe into a packed Sydney Opera House full of people? Do you think that those terrorists only existed in Afghanistan?
They have been attacking this country for decades. Perhaps you don't remember the bombing of the military barracks in Beirut, Lebanon in 1983 that not only killed 241 Americans but French and other members of a multinational force? Perhaps a list will help refresh your memory. Terrorists don't play nice, it's time we don't either.
September 11, 2001 - Terrorists hijack four U.S. commercial airliners taking off from various locations in the United States in a coordinated suicide attack. In separate attacks, two of the airliners crash into the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, which catch fire and eventually collapse. A third airliner crashes into the Pentagon in Washington, DC, causing extensive damage. The fourth airliner, also believed to be heading towards Washington, DC, crashes outside Shanksville, PA., killing all 45 people on board. Casualty estimates from New York put the possible death toll close to 5,000, while as many as 200 people may have been lost at the Pentagon crash site. Oct. 12, 2000 - A terrorist bomb damages the destroyer USS Cole in the port of Aden, Yemen, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39. Aug. 7, 1998 - Terrorist bombs destroy the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. In Nairobi, 12 Americans are among the 291 killed, and over 5,000 are wounded, including 6 Americans. In Dar es Salaam, one U.S. citizen is wounded among the 10 killed and 77 injured.
In response, on August 20 the United States attacked targets in Afghanistan and Sudan with over 75 cruise missiles fired from Navy ships in the Arabian and Red seas. About 60 Tomahawk cruise missiles were fired from warships in the Arabian Sea. Most struck six separate targets in a camp near Khost, Afghanistan. Simultaneously, about 20 cruise missiles were fired from U.S. ships in the Red Sea striking a factory in Khartoum, Sudan, which was suspected of producing components for making chemical weapons. June 21, 1998 - Rocket-propelled grenades explode near the U.S. embassy in Beirut. July 27, 1996 - A pipe bomb explodes during the Olympic games in Atlanta, killing one person and wounding 111. June 25, 1996 - A bomb aboard a fuel truck explodes outside a U.S. air force installation in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. 19 U.S. military personnel are killed in the Khubar Towers housing facility, and 515 are wounded, including 240 Americans. Nov. 13, 1995 - A car-bomb in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills seven people, five of them American military and civilian advisers for National Guard training. The "Tigers of the Gulf," "Islamist Movement for Change," and "Fighting Advocates of God" claim responsibility. April 19, 1995 - A car bomb destroys the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people and wounding over 600. February 1993 - A bomb in a van explodes in the underground parking garage in New York's World Trade Center, killing six people and wounding 1,042. Dec. 21, 1988 - A bomb destroys Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people aboard the Boeing 747 are killed including 189 Americans, as are 11 people on the ground. April 1986 - An explosion damages a TWA flight as it prepares to land in Athens, Greece. Four people are killed when they are sucked out of the aircraft. April 5, 1986 - A bomb destroys the LaBelle discotheque in West Berlin. The disco was known to be frequented by U.S. servicemen. The attack kills one American and one German woman and wounds 150, including 44 Americans
In response, on April 15 the United States retaliated in an operation dubbed ‘El Dorado Canyon.’ Approximately 100 aircraft were launched in direct support of the raid. It was an attack against military targets involving land-based bombers from Great Britain together with carrier-based air strikes from ships in the Gulf of Sidra. December 1985 - Simultaneous suicide attacks are carried out against U.S. and Israeli check-in desks at Rome and Vienna international airports. 20 people are killed in the two attacks, including four terrorists. November 1985 - Hijackers aboard an Egyptair flight kill one American. Egyptian commandos later storm the aircraft on the isle of Malta, and 60 people are killed. October 1985 - Palestinian terrorists hijack the cruise liner Achille Lauro (in response to the Israeli attack on PLO headquarters in Tunisia) Leon Klinghoffer, an elderly, wheelchair-bound American, is killed and thrown overboard. August 1985 - A car bomb at a U.S. military base in Frankfurt, Germany kills two and injures 20. A U.S. soldier murdered for his identity papers is found a day after the explosion. June 1985 - A TWA airliner is hijacked over the Mediterranean, the start of a two-week hostage ordeal. The last 39 passengers are eventually released in Damascus after being held in various locations in Beirut. June 1985 - In San Salvador, El Salvador, 13 people are killed in a machine gun attack at an outdoor café, including four U.S. Marines and two American businessmen. April 1985 - A bomb explodes in a restaurant near a U.S. air base in Madrid, Spain, killing 18, all Spaniards, and wounding 82, including 15 Americans. November 1984 - A bomb attack on the U.S. embassy in Bogota, Colombia kills a passer-by. The attack was preceded by death threats against U.S. officials by drug traffickers. October 1983 - A suicide car bomb attack against the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut kills 241 servicemen. A simultaneous attack on a French base kills 58 paratroopers. April 1983 - A suicide car bombing against the U.S. embassy in Beirut kills 63, including 17 Americans.
I think we should get out of Iraq as soon as we can stabilize the country. We were the ones who went in and destabilized the country (Saddam did this by severely oppressing the Shi'as, the majority of the country) and we have an obligation now to finish the job.
And Congress is at an extreme fault, not just the president. The majority of congress voted to go to war with Iraq. Now, they refuse to fund the troops in the war they started? That sickens me.
In my opinion, the war in Iraq was a major mistake. More people died in Iraq that Saddam ever killed through the chemical genocide (and to bring up history, we have him said chemical weapons to fight Iran several years ago).
Hopefully we can get a good, strong leader in next term, to at least be able to stabilize this mess.
And the link between Iraq and these atrocities is? Lets not rewrite history.
With 20/20 hindsite it may have been better to leave Saddam in power.
It goes to my point, that terrorism exists everywhere including Afghanistan. It is not isolated in one country and never has been. It is not rewriting history to state a fact.
Terrorists have been attacking the US for decades. Ignoring them or putting your head in the sand does nothing for eliminating a threat. Saying that military action doesn't work is assinine. The only good terrorist is a dead one. The military kills and breaks things, and for them to hunt terrorists down ---even in Iraq--- to kill and break them, is just fine in my book.
Please, I'm not certain what 20/20 hindsight you have, but gassing, torturing, murdering and raping your own population as Saddam has done somehow isn't a vision I would want to go back to. Even the court upheld his conviction.
To say nothing has been accomplished in Iraq is likewise ludicrous and uninformed. You must believe everything the Islamic TV tells you. I might direct you to the millions of Iraqi civilians who are now free, are going to schools, creating jobs, building a political infrastructure. The massive amount of rebuilding that has been taking place and been completed in many areas. Sure there are terrorist attacks. Israel has lived under the same type of threats as well. Israel is a great ally of the US and I would look forward to Iraq one day being the same.
To say that it is all a waste of time is to insult not only the US Military and their families but the Iraqi people as well.
Wow, any more emotional levers you want to pull anonym?
If I recall correctly we have had multiple reasons for invading Iraq, Weapons of Mass Destruction (ooops there were none), Regime change (done that), terrorists (Saddam hated OBL as much as you and I).
187 people blown up in the last two days in Iraq and getting worse each day.
There will be no "victory" in Iraq. Want me to get down to the nitty gritty?
Cole wrote: I think we should get out of Iraq as soon as we can stabilize the country. We were the ones who went in and destabilized the country (Saddam did this by severely oppressing the Shi'as, the majority of the country) and we have an obligation now to finish the job.
And Congress is at an extreme fault, not just the president. The majority of congress voted to go to war with Iraq. Now, they refuse to fund the troops in the war they started? That sickens me.
In my opinion, the war in Iraq was a major mistake. More people died in Iraq that Saddam ever killed through the chemical genocide (and to bring up history, we have him said chemical weapons to fight Iran several years ago).
Hopefully we can get a good, strong leader in next term, to at least be able to stabilize this mess.
Please get your facts straight. Saddam chose to invade Kuwait and caused his country serious harm on his own. Saddam and his henchmen were also charged with killing as many as 182,000 Kurds in artillery gas attacks on his own country. The multitudes of others, including those in the torture chambers we will probably never have an accurate count on.
The bogus CNN report of 655,000 Iraqis killed is just that bogus. It is not factual at all. It even lumps in enemy combatants, Republican Guard and Saddams Iraqi military and terrorists with civilian casualties. CNN has a tendency to do this to make political points.
Saddam is also responsible for ignoring the UN sanctions and warnings. It was also discovered he funneled more that $10billion dollars from the "Oil for Food" program that would have benefited his citizens. This is where some members of the UN were in bed with Saddam and were never really held accountable.
As for the good strong leader, some people wouldn't recognize one if they saw one. Hunt terrorists down, weed them out and kill them. I believe that is what our current leader has said on numerous ocassions.
It was not a CNN report it was from The Lancet, one of the most prestigious medical journals in the world. It states:
We estimate that, as a consequence of the coalition invasion of March 18, 2003, about 655 000 Iraqis have died above the number that would be expected in a non-conflict situation, which is equivalent to about 2·5% of the population in the study area. About 601 000 of these excess deaths were due to violent causes. Our estimate of the post-invasion crude mortality rate represents a doubling of the baseline mortality rate, which, by the Sphere standards, constitutes a humanitarian emergency.
