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LOL I am sorry but all I can do is laugh out loud to myself....
We didnt go to war with Iraq because of WMD, of which the US press so likes to keep bringing up. Leaving the loon in charge over thier was not an option and he forced us, no the world to press this direction.
Australia has been a huge supporter of the war in both countries and the only difference between the war in Iraq vs Afganistan is one guy and his 2 kids running it vs the Taliban ie Osama....
Look at the laws of the US and how they are not enforced like the laws of Australia... Personally I wish the US grew a set of balls and enforced the laws like they do in Australia.
Regardless of wether or not we are or should not be thier we are. We as in the USA is a country that supports liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Bottom line is finish the job or else more massacres are going to happen.
If we leave Iraq now, it opens the doors for Syria and Iraq to poor in, they are merely waiting for the the US to pull out. If your 100% behind Afganistan then you have to be 100% behind Iraq, they are being led by the same mentality... that mentality just hasnt knocked on your door yet at home.
So the question is really do we wait for the terrorists whichever country or belief they have come and kill another 3000 civilians or are we proactivly pursing them, and keeping them at bay.
Side note: How many people are murdered in the USA every year????? and compare that to how many are being murdered by people coming in from other countries ie Syria, Pakistan, Afganistan and Iran?????
Steve wrote: Side note: How many people are murdered in the USA every year????? and compare that to how many are being murdered by people coming in from other countries ie Syria, Pakistan, Afganistan and Iran?????
While this info is older ie 2003 you can do the math... http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/27/sprj.irq.main/ There is no reliable source for Iraqi civilian or combatant casualty figures, either during the period of major combat or after May 1. The Associated Press reported an estimated 3,240 civilian Iraqi deaths between March 20 and April 20, but the AP reported that the figure was based on records of only half of Iraq's hospitals and the actual number was thought to be significantly higher.
3240 multiplied by say 5 is still way above what we have had... I am still looking for the report i saw...
anonymopolis wrote: Cole wrote: I think we should get out of Iraq as soon as we can stabilize the country. We were the ones who went in and destabilized the country (Saddam did this by severely oppressing the Shi'as, the majority of the country) and we have an obligation now to finish the job.
And Congress is at an extreme fault, not just the president. The majority of congress voted to go to war with Iraq. Now, they refuse to fund the troops in the war they started? That sickens me.
In my opinion, the war in Iraq was a major mistake. More people died in Iraq that Saddam ever killed through the chemical genocide (and to bring up history, we have him said chemical weapons to fight Iran several years ago).
Hopefully we can get a good, strong leader in next term, to at least be able to stabilize this mess.
Please get your facts straight. Saddam chose to invade Kuwait and caused his country serious harm on his own. Saddam and his henchmen were also charged with killing as many as 182,000 Kurds in artillery gas attacks on his own country. The multitudes of others, including those in the torture chambers we will probably never have an accurate count on.
The bogus CNN report of 655,000 Iraqis killed is just that bogus. It is not factual at all. It even lumps in enemy combatants, Republican Guard and Saddams Iraqi military and terrorists with civilian casualties. CNN has a tendency to do this to make political points.
Saddam is also responsible for ignoring the UN sanctions and warnings. It was also discovered he funneled more that $10billion dollars from the "Oil for Food" program that would have benefited his citizens. This is where some members of the UN were in bed with Saddam and were never really held accountable.
As for the good strong leader, some people wouldn't recognize one if they saw one. Hunt terrorists down, weed them out and kill them. I believe that is what our current leader has said on numerous ocassions.655,000 dead is still 655,000 dead, regardless of who they were. They were still human lives, even if they were people that were wicked in their actions.
War should always be a LAST RESORT. I did not see war as being nessesary at all. There are countries that need much more aid than Iraq. I could probably clump most of Africa in that list, and especially North Korea.
Iraq is on the very edge of a civil war, and I guarantee you that casualities will rise significantly if it turns into a full fleged civil war. It will be hard to ever really achieve a safe democratic nation there. The Shites will outvote the Sunnis and Kurds every time, and that has to cause extreme contriversy.
Steve wrote: And the Holocaust was fact or fiction? Should the world had stayed out of that conflict or just talk about it?
I don't really know how that is relevant. Diplomacy should always be a choice over war. And the Holocaust/WWII was an unavoidable war, it threatened the free world as well as the Jews. I am a big Zionist, and I support the Jews tons, but the Iraqi war was something entirely different. More people died as a result of our actions. If we would have used some cunning diplomacy, we could have avoided the war alltogether.
Honestly, where does that post fit in with anything.
I hope you all don't mind me chiming in. I have some experiance over there... 24 months to be exact. I try to justify my deployments when I go, most soldiers do, we find our individual reason to do what we do and here is mine:
My first trip over there came at the begining of the war, I developed the fact that Sadam was a bad person and needed to be removed from power. We accomplished this mission.
My second trip over I was a part of a MiTT team. Basically we trained the Iraqi Army to defend for themselves. To me this was a good mission. We first removed the bad guys, then taught the good guys how to defend themselves.
Of course this is an on going mission, and everything has goods and bads about it. I believe we are doing good over there and think it's a good idea to stick around for a spell. What exactly is "Mission complete?" I don't know, but I do know the people over there appriciate what we did for them, I have looked into their eyes and saw appriciation for what we have done.
There is so much to say I don't know where to begin so I will leave it at this for now,
Ray
MH0825 wrote: It is very cool to hear from someone who is over there and has experienced it and seen it first hand. Good to know that you're back ok.
Thanks, I will be back over there for a third trip by the end of the year (15 months this time), hopefully I can give some front line insight at that time.
TVDinner wrote: Ray - thanks for the post and we NEVER mind if you post, lol. Post away.
let me ask you something. i am pro-troops and pro what we are trying to accomplish over there.
What was the attitude of the other military guys you were over there with. did they feel the same way in your opinion?
There are mixed emotions, but above all, I believe the soldiers I served with had the same thought process I had, after all we were on the same mission. That is my point of view, please understand I am not trying to speak for any other soldier, I am sharing my opinion and what I saw.
There is a lot to deal with over there, we lost 19 men from my Brigade, some were friends, some had been in the unit a few weeks and in country a few days. Each soldeir must come to terms with the mission at hand, three soldiers could not and chose to take their own life. Others like me, manage to understand enough to keep our wits and not to much to drive ourselves to something we might regret.
One thing that I dislike is the fact that the media seems to report all the bad news and very little of the good. It would be refreshing to have a news channel that went out of their way to report the good news and the difference we are making over there. I mean, they all seem to go out of their way to report the bad stuff... but I guess that is what sells right? What feeds the radicals?
Truthfully I try my best to steer clear of the drama, I find my reasons for doing what I do and I do the best I can at my choice of carreer. I let you all worry about the polotics and the drama that follows, and yes, the voting of our future Commander in Chief.
Each soldeir must come to terms with the mission at hand, three soldiers could not and chose to take their own life.
that is an incredible statement. i dont think I have read or seen anywhere about suicide like that. I guess I can understand that it might happen, but I can not believe I have not seen stories about it. wow...
I have friends over there, although I recently found out that I have one less friend alive than I used to. I wish everyone could come home, as do most people with family and friends out there. They are out there for a reason though, whether or not I agree with it is irrelevant. For the moment, it appears as though it needs to be done... So I wish them all the very best and to all come home safely.
mrpaseo -
Good luck. Be safe. May God be with you. (Your God, my God, and anyone else's God too!) I wish you a very safe tour and return. Thank you for all that you do!
